Sunday, May 4, 2014

Romeo and Juliet - what does it mean?

Consider this a Socratic Seminar online.  You may respond to other student's ideas.  In fact, I would like you to post your answers first, then express agreement or disagreement at least once with another classmate, making certain that you clearly state your reasons for agreement or disagreement.  Any abuse of this blog will result in a grade of zero.  That means no fooling around.

Read the text below.  THE ORIGINAL VERSION is shown first.  The same passage, in more MODERN VERSION follows (in a different font) to help you understand the conversation.  After reading, answer the questions in a post.  In the event that a post is not possible, please email your response to me.


Lady Capulet 
Enough of this; I pray thee, hold thy peace.
Nurse
Yes, madam: yet I cannot choose but laugh,
To think it should leave crying and say 'Ay.'
And yet, I warrant, it had upon its brow
A bump as big as a young cockerel's stone;
A parlous knock; and it cried bitterly:
'Yea,' quoth my husband,'fall'st upon thy face?
Thou wilt fall backward when thou comest to age;
Wilt thou not, Jule?' it stinted and said 'Ay.'
Juliet
And stint thou too, I pray thee, nurse, say I.
Nurse 
Peace, I have done. God mark thee to his grace!
Thou wast the prettiest babe that e'er I nursed:
An I might live to see thee married once,
I have my wish.
Lady Capulet 
Marry, that 'marry' is the very theme
I came to talk of. Tell me, daughter Juliet,
How stands your disposition to be married?
Juliet It is an honour that I dream not of.
Nurse An honour! were not I thine only nurse,
I would say thou hadst suck'd wisdom from thy teat.
Lady Capulet
Well, think of marriage now; younger than you,
Here in Verona, ladies of esteem,
Are made already mothers: by my count,
I was your mother much upon these years
That you are now a maid. Thus then in brief:
The valiant Paris seeks you for his love.
Nurse
A man, young lady! lady, such a man
As all the world--why, he's a man of wax.
Lady Capulet 
Verona's summer hath not such a flower.
Nurse 
Nay, he's a flower; in faith, a very flower.
Lady Capulet
What say you? can you love the gentleman?
This night you shall behold him at our feast;
Read o'er the volume of young Paris' face,
And find delight writ there with beauty's pen;
Examine every married lineament,
And see how one another lends content
And what obscured in this fair volume lies
Find written in the margent of his eyes.
This precious book of love, this unbound lover,
To beautify him, only lacks a cover:
The fish lives in the sea, and 'tis much pride
For fair without the fair within to hide:
That book in many's eyes doth share the glory,
That in gold clasps locks in the golden story;
So shall you share all that he doth possess,
By having him, making yourself no less.
Nurse
No less! nay, bigger; women grow by men.
Lady Capulet
Speak briefly, can you like of Paris' love?
Juliet 
I'll look to like, if looking liking move:
But no more deep will I endart mine eye
Than your consent gives strength to make it fly.

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LADY CAPULET
Enough of this. Please be quiet.

NURSE
Yes ,madam. But I can’t help laughing to think that the baby stopped crying and said, “Yes.” I swear, she had a bump on her forehead as big as a rooster’s testicle. It was a painful bruise, and she was crying bitterly. “Yes,” said my husband, “Did you fall on your face? You’ll fall backward when you grow up, won’t you, Jule?” And she stopped crying and said, “Yes.”

JULIET
Now you stop too, Nurse, please.
NURSE
Peace. I’m done talking. May God choose you to receive his grace. You were the prettiest baby I ever nursed. If I live to see you get married someday, all my wishes will come true.

 LADY CAPULET
Well, marriage is exactly what we have to discuss. Tell me, my daughter Juliet, what is your attitude about getting married?

JULIET
It is an honor that I do not dream of.

NURSE
“An honor?” If I weren’t your only nurse, I’d say you had sucked wisdom from the breast that fed you.

LADY CAPULET
Well, start thinking about marriage now. Here in Verona there are girls younger than you—girls from noble families—who have already become mothers. By my count, I was already your mother at just about your age, while you remain a virgin. Well then, I’ll say this quickly: the valiant Paris wants you as his bride.

NURSE
What a man, young lady. He’s as great a man as any in the whole world. He’s as perfect as if he were sculpted from wax.

LADY CAPULET
Summertime in Verona has no flower as fine as him.

NURSE
No, he’s a fine flower, truly, a flower.

LADY CAPULET
(to JULIET) What do you say? Can you love this gentleman? Tonight you’ll see him at our feast. Study Paris’s face and find pleasure in his beauty. Examine every line of his features and see how they work together to make him handsome. If you are confused, just look into his eyes. This man is single, and he lacks only a bride to make him perfect and complete. As is right, fish live in the sea, and it’s wrong for a beauty like you to hide from a handsome man like him. Many people think he’s handsome, and whoever becomes his bride will be just as admired. You would share all that he possesses, and by having him, you would lose nothing.

NURSE
Lose nothing? In fact, you’d get bigger. Men make women bigger by getting them pregnant.

LADY CAPULET
(to JULIET) Give us a quick answer. Can you accept Paris’s love?

JULIET
I’ll look at him and try to like him, at least if what I see is likable. But I won’t let myself fall for him any more than your permission allows.


Describe the relationships between the 3 women (Juliet and the Nurse; Juliet and her mother; the nurse and the mother).  What do you find surprising or unusual? 

38 comments:

  1. Juliet and the nurse have a strong loving relationship. The nurse treats Juliet as her own daughter. Juliet and her mother on the other hand have a very different relationship. Juliet does not tell her mother everything and they are not very close. The nurse and Juliet's mother have a strict person to maid relationship.

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  2. Juliet and the nurse have a strong loving relationship. The nurse treats Juliet as her own daughter. Juliet and her mother on the other hand have a very different relationship. Juliet does not tell her mother everything and they are not very close. The nurse and Juliet's mother have a strict person to maid relationship

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    1. I agree Emily because Juliet doesnt tell her mom everything she always confides in the nurse who is more like her mother.
      -Jenna

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  3. ^^^ Emily Potemri

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    1. I agree with Emily because int the text it shows that the nurse is very caring, loving and pays a lot of attention to the daughter unlike the mother they have a awkward and quiet relationship the don't really pay to much attention to each other.
      Rich Gingras

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  4. i think the nurse and juliet have good relationship with eachother. i think the nurse sees juliet as her own. for example when the nurse says the day i see u married all my dreams will come true. also i think juliet and the nurse are more closer together than julitet and her mother. by that i mean juliet tells more things to the nurse than to her own mother. By: Izayah Carides

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  5. The nurse treats Juliet more like a daughter than her own mother does. She seems to care more about her. The nurse and Juliet have a closer relationship and share more with each other. Juliet doesn't talk to her mother or tell her as many things as she does with the nurse. The relationship between the nurse and Juliet's mother isn't really a relationship. She's just someone who works for the family.

    Tori Rocha

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    1. i agree with you Tori that the nurse treats Juliet more like a mother then her own and her and her own mother are not very close. great job explaining your thoughts. Love Emily Majeau <3

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  6. emily smells like fish

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  7. Jesse Allard:

    Juliet and the Nurse: They seem to be best friends, and a lot closer than they are to the mother. It seems as if the Nurse kind of feels how Juliet feels.

    Juliet and the mother: They don't seem to be like mother and daughter too much, and they don't agree with each other.

    The mother and the Nurse: They seems to be like old friends. Although they may agree on things, if Juliet has a big problem with it, then the Nurse will side with Juliet instead of the mother.

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    1. Dear Jesse Alhard, i agree with you, because in the text it shows how Juliet and the Nurses relationship is close and Juliet isn't afraid to say what he wants to in front if her, "Now you stop too, Nurse, please" this quote shows that she is not afraid to say what he really wants.On the other hand Juliet is afraid to say things like that to her mother. ~ Rachel Holmes

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  8. Jessica Brierly
    I think that the relationship between Nurse and Juliet is better that the relationship between Juliet and her mother. Juliets mother is very harsh and puts her in situations that she does not want do be in(the forced marriage). The relationship between Juliet and Nurse is more down to earth. Nurse thinks about Juliets feelings before anything. The relationship between Nurse and Juliets mother is nothing more than Nurse being a maid. I am not surprised at this relationship because of the characteristics of each of the three women in this story. This is the relationship between the three women in this story.

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    1. I agree with you Jess. I also think that the nurse puts Juliets feelings first, and that she is more of a mother figure to Juliet.
      -Jenna

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    2. This is a great response because i think that Juliet has a great relationship

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    3. ^^^ Anthony

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  9. Imagine if a close friend was a better mother to your daughter than you? Well that's how it is between Nurse and Juliet. The Nurse to Juliet is like a second mother, she cares for her and will do anything for Juliet. Juliet and her mother don't have the best relationship. Her mother doesn't care about Juliets feelings. She cares about the money and material things. The relationship between the Nurse and the Mother is an awkward relationship. The mother knows that the Nurse is closer to Juliet and kind of seems remorseful about the arranged marriage and how she treats Juliet. The mother is kind of jealous of the Nurse, and hates how the Nurse is so close to Juliet and disobeys her. I find it unusual how the mother has the heart to force her daughter into a marriage that she doesn't want.

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  10. this is vanessa doeur ^ i forgot my name

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  11. Juliet and her mom don't trust each other The nurse has to trust Juliet's mom because she is the nurse's boss Juliet and and the nurse trust each other a lot Juliet trust the nurse with her secret
    -Anthony

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  12. jordan looks like a monkey

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  13. Juliets relationships between the nurse and her mother are completely different. Juliet looks at the nurse like her mother and her best friend. she has more trust in the nurse then her own mother. Juliet and her mother are very distance towards each other. the mother thinks of the nurse as nothing more then a worker for the family and Juliet looks at the nurse like a family member someone she cares for like the nurse is Juliet mother. the nurse is very caring and down to earth towards Juliet and her family

    Emily Majeau

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    1. I agree with you Emily because I also thought that Juliet treated the nurse like more of a mother and that Juliet and her actual mother were more distant. I think you explained that very well. Love,Tori Rocha <3

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  14. Rachel Holmes:

    The relationship between Juliet & the Nurse is a close relationship, Juliet would not be afraid to tell the nurse what she wants to say, the nurse see's Juliet as her own child in a way.

    Juliet & her mothers relationship i wouldn't say was a close one, Juliet does obey her mother, but in a way as well she does not want to agree with what plans she has for her.

    The relationship between Juliet's mother and the nurse is somewhat like a business relationship, The nurse agrees and does what the mother wants her to do, because she is a nurse

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    1. Rachel I agree with what you have said about all three relationships. Juliet is not close with her mother but is close with the Nurse. Juliets mother treats the Nurse like some one who works for her not someone she should be greatful for taken care of Juliet.
      ~Amber Almeida

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  15. The relationships between the the three female characters in Romeo and Juliet are mostly reversed. When I say reversed I mean that the way they look at each other are the way people don't expect it to be. Juliet had seen her mom as a boss and the nurse as her mom in my opinion. Juliet's mom had been very bossy to her daughter and mean to the nurse. The nurse had reminded me of a motherly figure to Juliet and was just nice to almost everyone.

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  16. The relationships between the the three female characters in Romeo and Juliet are mostly reversed. When I say reversed I mean that the way they look at each other are the way people don't expect it to be. Juliet had seen her mom as a boss and the nurse as her mom in my opinion. Juliet's mom had been very bossy to her daughter and mean to the nurse. The nurse had reminded me of a motherly figure to Juliet and was just nice to almost everyone.
    - Nicholas Beauregard

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    1. I agree completely. Juliet also acts like she knows the Nurse more than she knows her own mother, she seems more comfortable with the Nurse.
      -Jesse Allard

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    2. @Nicholas Beauregard, I agree with what you said about the characters being "reversed," even though that is not the word i would have used. Both mine (Max) and your response were very similar, covering all the relationships and giving good examples.

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  17. The womanly relationships are very diverse in the story. Juliet and her mom don't hate each other but they don't have the mother-daughter you would expect. The nurse on the other hand, serves as a mother figure to Juliet. Also the mom and nurse hate each other. Max Klitzner

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    1. I agree with Max in how he said that the relationships were diverse and how the he was basically saying that the roles were mix-matched. I had the same thought because of how the characters had treated each other. For example when they were talking about the wedding the mom was sort of ordering Juliet, the Nurse was very supportive and happy for Juliet, and Juliet had just acted sad and obedient.

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    2. I agree with this because in the reading Juliet's mother only cares about what she wants "Speak briefly, can you like of Paris' love?" but the nurse just wants Juliet to be happy. -Jordan A

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  18. The realashonship between Juliet and her mother is not very good. They are not that close to eachother and they tend to have a lot of disagreements.Juliet and the nurse on the other hand have a very great realashonship. Juliet always confides in the nurse because she trusts her. The nurse has been taking care of Juliet since birth so they have a special connection and bond.Lady Capulet and the nurse have a distant realashonship. The nurse obeys Lady Capulet most of the time but usaully sides with Juliet in their arguments.Overall the nurse has been a mother figure in Juliets life more than her actuall mother, Lady Capulet.


    Jenna O'Neill

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    1. I agree with Jenna because of the trust issues in the story. Most of the relationships in this story has to do with trust. Juliet does not trust her mother but she trusts the nurse with everything
      -Jessica Brierly

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  19. I agree with Emily P. I agree with what she was saying that Juliet and the maid are very close. Also that they have a strict person to maid relationship.

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    1. that is me Izayah Carides mssssssss

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  20. I agree with all of Racheal's opinions. We have the same ideas on how the nurse is like Juliet's second mother and how Juliet's mother and the nurse have a strict business relationship. Also, we both said that Juliet loves her mother a lot but they are not as close as the nurse and Juliet are.
    -Emily Potemri

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  21. I agree with Emily P,with what she is saying with Juliet and the nurse having a loving relationship because the nurse was always there for Juliet ever since she was a baby
    cyane joseph

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  22. Amber Almeida

    Juliet and the Nurse have a very good trusting relationship. The nurse acts as if she is Juliets mother. Juliet tells the nurse everything and she does everything she tells her to as if the nurse was her mother. Juliet and her mother dont really have much of a relationship, they barely speak or spend time together. Juliets mother did not even know Juliets age and had to ask the nurse. The nurse and Juliets mother dont talk like friends or family. Instead Juliets mother bosses the nurse around she is kind of disrespectful and rude towards the nurse when she is speaking to her. This is odd because The nurse should not be acting or taking the place of Juliets real mother.The Nurse should be asking Juliets mother about Juliet not the other way around.

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